Getting started in the business??

[storemore]

I currently own and operate a company where we manufacture and install custom closet and garage organization systems. My business is located in Adrian, Michigan (southeast). I would like to consider starting a crating and box company and could really use some advise. I would like some direction regarding startup and is this something that requires a great deal of capital to get started? Most importantly, how does someone get started in the business. I could use a mentor. Your comments are greatly appreciated...

Thank you,

Tony Carlisle
Store-More Shelving Systems, Inc.

[Admin]

Hi Tony,

Welcome to WCO!

Getting started in the business can be easy or hard depending on how you position yourself in the market. But another big factor is whether or not you already have a related business and it sounds like the answer to that is yes.

Assuming you already have the saws, storage space, manpower, and that your overhead is pretty well covered, you can easily start by taking small and simple projects.

Getting started, you will need to decide if you want to start off approaching commercial or retail business. If you decide commercial, you'll need to develop your own approach based on your local business environment. A good source is a local business journal to see what company may be moving a manufacturing facility or speaking with equipment leasing companies to see who is about to return leased equipment such as large copier or anything bigger.

To start out in retail, talk to many of the mail and parcel centers in the are such as The UPS Store, etc. People will often call them about crating and they simply turn the business down. They can easily make $25 to $100 profit by selling a retail crating job for you and you can still do well too.

Retail is also easier because the value of the product is often much less, there is often less competition and you have some breathing room to overbuild the container. You can get your feet wet by learning the process on the easy stuff then grow from there.

Basic equipment you will need includes:

• Table or panel saw
• Cutoff saw
• An assembly surface such as a steel table is helpful
• Compressor (20 gallon tank or so is fine to start)
• 1-1/4" Staple gun
• 2-1/2" Nail gun
• About a 3-1/4" Nail gun

Any information/sources that you need, you can find somewhere on this site including:

• Find a local foam converter/reseller - assure it's for packaging, not furniture. Have their salesperson educate you on foam curves and the use of packaging foam. Specifically get educated about the difference between shock and vibration. The solution to their effect are counter-active.
• Contact ASTM and order Volume 15.09. This contains just about every standard you need. DON'T get overwhelmed by what's in it. Be sure to read the end of this post before jumping in and opening the book.
• Find a nail distributor. They will typically loan you guns for free if you buy all your staples and nails from them. Even if it takes you a year to go through one box of staples. They typically have extra used guns to loan.
• Find a crating component distributor(s). There may not be anyone in your area. You will need a source for (and information on how to use) tip and shock indicators, alternate fasteners options, marking/stenciling supplies and equipment, etc.
• Shop your wood regularly and find a source that will educate you.
• Find a local bug eradicator/heat treater that is familiar with ISPM-15 and has 'a bug stamp'. Learn about ISPM-15. In general (I don't know the details myself) any non-engineered wood (lumber boards) must be eradicated before shipping to a foreign country.
• This is a shameless plug, since I wrote it, but also look into Crate Pro software (www.cratepro.com). It comes prepopulated with time values and much else. If you're getting started, it will help you properly price your jobs right from the start plus guide you on fastener quantities, sizes, etc. It has more information in it than you will understand, but anything that you don't understand, you don't need to know. It will be there for you as your knowledge grows.

Knowing everything about the above 7 points isn't required. For know just knowing 'of them' is important. Your knowledge can grow from there as you need to know more

Some of the most common mistakes that people make are:

• Confusing particle board and Oriented Strand Board (OSB). You may already know this but they are far from the same product and OSB has many better strength characteristics than CDX plywood.
• People believe they must have a hard, rigid container so they will make even the smallest boxes out of 1/2" plywood and 2x4s. This is a big mistake. An effective 'box' will flex as required, simliar to a car during an accident. The container should help absorb shock. Although the US follows different principles, various foreign countries believe that the condition of the container at it' destination is not important (it could be totally destroyed) so long as the contents arrives intact.
• Similiar to the point above, people often simply overpack believing the more packing the better. Having the wrong packing is always wrong.
• Anticipate how the container will be lifted based on where it's going. If going to a third world country, consider it will have to be sling lifted. If it's going to a small business, it may have to fit through a 30" door. If it's going into a secure room there may be magnetic door lock that hangs down a couple of inches below the door frame. If going in a data center, it may have to be moved around tight turns, up a short ramp or be unpacked in a room with a lower than normal ceiling. If going air freight and it's a large container, be sure you know the size of the cargo door on the plane. You've probably got the idea by now.
• Probably the #1 mistake people make when starting out is not being creative. Unless you are selling to the military, consider the standards to be a guideline. Crating is 'custom' so think outside the box (pun intended) and find a way to make your container a 'shipping solution'.

The biggest disagreement between members of the crating community is concerning the difference between a box and a crate. Read the older article at the bottom of the home page for some details.

Generally speaking, the ASTM standards ($) are similar enough to the old mil specs (free) that you don't need to get too deep into them unless a specific spec is called out in an RFQ. Start with the free mil-specs that you can download from the Standards page.

90% of the wood containers made in the US and Canada are based on the PPP-B-601 A or A modified with drop-down end panels. Start by downloading the spec and glance over it. Trust me... I've probably read most of the specs 10 times more than other craters and the more I read them, the more confusing they get. Many of them are contrary to others. So start with the 601, read the basics and then go through others. They can all be found on the standards page from the WCO home page.

Here are basic restrictions, but note that this info is summarized and is all subjective in a real world situation:

< 400# and 4' in any direction - PPP-B-621
< 1000# and 4' x 16' or 8' x 8' on any panel - PPP-B-601
< 2500# and 4' x 16' or 8' x 8' on any panel - MIL-B-26196
< 20,000# and enclosed - MIL-C-104
< Open faced crate - MIL-C-52950
> 20,000# - Mil-Hdbk-701 (Hdbk = Handbook and means it's full of guidelines and you're on your own)

Unless you have a customer that specifies a standard, the above is a good guideline but consider that the 601 is often used for smaller or larger items than what's shown above.

I hope you get more responses to your question. If so, they will likely disagree with at least part of what I've said, so the last thing I'll say is that crating really isn't one industry. Someone who crates military electronics at $70/hr is very different than someone who crates paver rocks at $25/hr. And there's anything in-between.

The most important thing that I hope you can pull from all this is that it's not as hard as it may look. Take all the information as a guideline then just use common sense.

Good luck!

[storemore]

Thank you so much for the great reply. I never expected someone to take so much time explaining the process and giving so many great tip, do's & don'ts.

I will take your advise and start by getting the required standards and getting myself educated. There is so much to learn. I am very excited to get started. Starting in the retail field looks like the best way to go and grow from there. Any new information that you can provide would be greatly appreciated. This is a great website with helpful members.

Thanks again,

Tony

[storemore]

I have reviewed many of the standards, regulations, styles, tables, types and come to the conclusion that there is a whole lot more to this than I thought. I'm not a packaging engineer, so how do I learn how to properly build crates and boxes. I could fumble through the standards etc. but instead is there a basic class available other than the Feb 2008 class posted. A recomendation of a good book would also help.

Thanks again

Tony
@Store-more

[Admin]

There are a couple of books available, but their emphasis is mostly on packaging in general (including retail) or at best, all transport packaging.

The standards are a mess and that's one thing that scares people when they want to get started. One thing to remember though, most 'successful' crate makers have never even seen many of the specs. The specs are in many ways are difficult to utilize and can often be impractical. Many of them are based on engineering and costs from the early 1900's. Labor and material costs have changed, leaving much of the data unreasonable. For example, you can use 1x2"s on many small boxes, but the cost of purchasing, stocking and/or ripping 1x2"s in often impractical and doesn't justify the cost savings in material or in shipping weight. Most craters will simply use 1x4"s and 3/8" panelboard for most things up to a few thousand pounds. (I'm intensionally being vague here because the type of load and base can impact that.) Bases are typically made from plywood up to 1-1/8" depending on what's available in your area to 2xN"s for larger or heavier loads.

There is one school, the School of Military Packing in Aberdeen, MD. But they are also a military institution, on a military base and will guide you toward all the technical stuff you've been reading here. Although it's a great school, it's more for companies that package specifically for the military and I don't feel it may be the right place to go for a primer.

When reviewing the standards, focus on the ones I mentioned and only skim over them. Look at the tables mostly and don't try to flip back and forth to find every cross reference.

And, although I generally discourage using the forums to promote ones own product, the concerns you have are exactly why Crate Pro was written. It won't do everything for you, but when you purchase it, you receive free one-on-one training. This can often get you over the hump and get you going. The program allows you to select a style using diagrams then will design the crate to assure every component is the right size. Often a startup issue is simply knowing how to assemble the crate. In my last post, I generally told you what crate to use and when. Crate Pro does most of the rest and frankly, I think it's worth the cost just for the training you get. Using Crate Pro is similar to hiring an employee that's already in the business. That person alone won't make you successful, but they will provide you with what you need to make better decisions. I REALLY recommend you look into it.

I hope that's more helpful. Crating really is easy to get into, there's a large part of the market that is untapped and the margins aren't bad.

[Jbones]

My husband and I acquired a crating business and I am so thankful that I found this site! We bought it as a second business/second income but we are pretty sure we will be taking it to the forefront here soon. You provided some great info in your replies and post here. Thanks! JBones

[Admin]

You're very welcome JBones. And welcome to the forums!

We have a handful of highly qualified people who monitor the forums to address your questions. Feel free to ask away.

Oh, and welcome to the industry too!

[foxtrot]

Consider looking into Crate Pro software. It's a design and costing software. There are banner ads for it on the Home page.

[salmanq]

Help me out regarding this topic going on. Can some one tell me in little detail what is the exact meaning of the discussion doing on?

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